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[Music]

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welcome back fade to black i am your

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host jimmy church

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tomorrow night

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fader nights

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a memorial

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a little party for stanton t friedman

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we're gonna have some special guests

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that are coming by and of course open

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lines all night long

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that's it we're gonna share our favorite

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stan stan moments

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and we've got many and i've got lots of

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pictures to post too as well so that'll

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be tomorrow night tonight it's james fox

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he's here to talk about the release of

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his new film phenomenon he was born in

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england raised in new york in california

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he began his journalism career early in

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life as an assistant to his father who

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was a writer charles fox together they

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traveled on many magazine assignments

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interviewing such notables as stephen

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hawking and race car legend dan gurney

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for the likes of rolling stone car and

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driver to sports illustrated james

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finished and sold his first documentary

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to discovery by the time he was 28

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he has since completed and distributed

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tv projects for sci-fi the learning

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channel nat geo history channel has made

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frequent appearances on of course larry

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king live nightline dateline anderson

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cooper and others his documentaries out

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of the blue and i know what i saw are

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two of the most respected films in

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ufology and tonight we are going to

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discuss his next film the phenomenon

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which is now set for major theatrical

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release later this year by the orchard i

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would like to welcome back to fade to

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black

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director james fox james good evening my

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friend how are you

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i gotta meet this guy i know he's cool

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i gotta meet i gotta meet myself i can't

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wow

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you know what though when you when you

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meet never contradict him in public

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at least that's the rumor that's the

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rumor how are you

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you're missing the finger wag there uh

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i'm doing i'm doing great um you know

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and end of a

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approaching the end of a rather long

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hard slog

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so you know all the all the things that

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one associates with of the final push

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are present in my life you know the

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stress and the

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cramping all my muscles and the sleep

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deprivation

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all of that and and certainly james uh

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the elephant in the room right

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which is

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do you feel the pressure

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of topping you know out of the blue and

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i know what i saw because you know uh

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how those two films are regarded in

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ufology the expectations from this

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community are very very high do you feel

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that pressure

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tremendously yes i do and and here's the

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thing

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i remember when when i finished i know

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what i saw and and meeting the

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deliverables for amy was nearly

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impossible i remember i remember reading

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uh critics

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and uh and feeling personally uh

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assaulted and thinking you guys have no

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idea what i went through to get this

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movie on to air but uh before we sold it

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to a e i i had a deal in the works with

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lionsgate

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and it wasn't just the financial game

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which had been great

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but the the global footprint that they

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had for distribution would have been

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just amazing

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sure uh and we were going up through the

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ranks and and finally we got a got into

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acquisitions i was bubbling over the

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excitement i mean really

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and they took a pass

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and they said well the film production

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values are slightly subpar this was 10

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years ago so you know we've got

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different you know frame rate issues and

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shot on different formats and they took

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a pass so

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i said to myself right then and there i

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will never ever make that mistake again

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so with this film

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um i hired a

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national geographic photographer

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by the name of david west he's

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phenomenal

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and uh you know got really high-end

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equipment i hired audio guys and if i

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didn't have the money i raised the money

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i didn't settle for less

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so the end result is sort of a 60-minute

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style

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um

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you know film on the topic of ufos which

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quite frankly is never i haven't seen it

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done before when you look at this it

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looks like

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60 minutes production yeah it does it

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does it does i'm very i'm very proud of

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that you know and then

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on top of that if i'm rambling just just

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tell me to shut my butthole but on top

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of that

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i was working with um working with a guy

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they always say you want your partner to

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be smarter than you well the guy i'm

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working with is about 100 times smaller

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than me

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um

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and uh and he's been amazing at helping

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stitch all the stories together in a

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cohesive narrative that that holds the

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viewer and that has purpose

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not just banging the audience over again

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head over and over again with well this

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case happened in this case happened in

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this case happens there's a meaning

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behind that there's a destination this

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pl is a place where the film's going and

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that's that's that's really exciting

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it's been

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field currently sorry well no i actually

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i actually want to jump in and interrupt

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you for a second because

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i have uh

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i have seen clips of the film uh as it

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is you know over over the years you have

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sent me a few things and and i thank you

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for that but i sat back looking at these

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clips and the quality of what is going

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on

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and it just made me angry because this

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is a film that i would want to make you

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know and i see the excellence of of what

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is going on i'm talking about the

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framing i'm talking about the

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cinematography and then i'm looking at

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these interviews and who you have

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managed uh to get on camera and i've

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even asked you

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uh you know i

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can you share some of this with me can i

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get to some of these uh witnesses and

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you pulled it off uh it is

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it is uh eye candy and you

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there's there's a there

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i could literally do a film on every

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single

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high target interview person that we've

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gotten and some of which that we nearly

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got to i mean we got very close to them

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even higher level people i mean really

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as close as you could possibly get like

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a letter from them saying hey we're

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seriously considering meeting with you

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and

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it's been a

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they say it takes a village you know

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there's been some very influential

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people in the field

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um george knapp

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one of them but a handful of others as

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well

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that have been instrumental in pulling

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strings behind the scenes for us

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uh and i'm

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forever grateful

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well let's cut to the chase uh because

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we've uh got limited time tonight we've

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got a lot to talk about so let's cut to

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the chase

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one of the uh there's there's okay i'm

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going to tantalize the audience with

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these two bits of information

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number one

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this is going to have a theatrical

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release across the country

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uh by the orchard

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and it it's a tentative 700 screens now

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for you that's got to be the most

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exciting thing that a director could

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have

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yeah i mean obviously

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you know it uh that that that appears to

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be the direction this is moving in

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and i am cautiously optimistic everyone

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seemed to be very impressed with uh with

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the rough cut that we've shared i'm just

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going to get a lot better

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um peter coyote is going to narrate

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um we're going to hire

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you know wait wait who's

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who's going to narrate

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peter coyote you can't just say drop

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peter coyote and keep talking

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you got peter coyote okay so let's let's

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let's sit back and and discuss what you

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just said

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this film

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very anticipated

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um

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it's incredible but it's going to be a

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major theatrical release and you've got

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yeah i know what what's funny is that

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he's he narrated out of the blue yes

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and so he's been familiar with some of

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my previous works and i sent him clips

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from this one and his only response was

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boy this is a game changer

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he was like this film's gonna make waves

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and and i quite honestly i i totally

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agree with him i really feel like

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you know this could be

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let's say the tipping point but it's

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uh if it gets the the level of

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distribution that we're we're

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moving in that direction with

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um i i can't imagine that it's not going

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to really influence

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a lot of people into reconsidering what

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they thought

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of the topic of ufos

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i say this as well because

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i have some very skeptical friends my

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his friends people that have been kind

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making fun of me over the decades you

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know

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and i had a screening

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probably about a month ago

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about 15 20 people and

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i stopped the film

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at the end and put the lights on and the

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room was kind of quiet and i thought

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well that's not a good sign

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and then i kind of waited they all

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looked at me and they said boy this is

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uh

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this is really hard to refute i mean

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this is

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thing i've ever seen i need to process

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what i just saw

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so i thought well that's a really good

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sign

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you know so i'm very optimistic i'm

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super excited i think this is the film

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that that we've all been waiting for and

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when uh

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most think about now i did my top 10 uh

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ufo documentaries right uh at the

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beginning of the show

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and

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when

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we think about what is a good ufo

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documentary a few things do come to mind

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uh you know you've made two of the best

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but

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you know a few things you know come to

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mind but the approach here

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um and certainly from the clips that i

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have seen that the approach here is not

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only cinematic but to talk about

284
00:10:48,630 --> 00:10:45,200
and and investigate and present

285
00:10:50,710 --> 00:10:48,640
cases that haven't been out in front of

286
00:10:54,389 --> 00:10:50,720
uh the public eye

287
00:10:57,590 --> 00:10:54,399
in the past but i i want to discuss that

288
00:10:58,790 --> 00:10:57,600
but it's also the opening sequence of

289
00:11:00,870 --> 00:10:58,800
the film

290
00:11:02,550 --> 00:11:00,880
and uh we're going to be running and

291
00:11:05,190 --> 00:11:02,560
thank you for the images by the way

292
00:11:06,870 --> 00:11:05,200
we're running those uh now on twitter

293
00:11:10,710 --> 00:11:06,880
but oh cool uh

294
00:11:13,269 --> 00:11:10,720
tell us about the opening sequence and

295
00:11:15,190 --> 00:11:13,279
what you what lengths you want to make

296
00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:15,200
this special

297
00:11:21,430 --> 00:11:18,640
okay so uh i i i

298
00:11:23,269 --> 00:11:21,440
i've always loved james bond films

299
00:11:24,470 --> 00:11:23,279
and what i love about james bond will

300
00:11:26,389 --> 00:11:24,480
love everything about him but what i

301
00:11:28,710 --> 00:11:26,399
particularly love about james fons james

302
00:11:30,069 --> 00:11:28,720
bond james bond films trying to say that

303
00:11:31,350 --> 00:11:30,079
fast 10 times

304
00:11:33,990 --> 00:11:31,360
is

305
00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:34,000
the cold opens they have uh just get

306
00:11:40,069 --> 00:11:37,200
right to the action and i remember about

307
00:11:41,110 --> 00:11:40,079
five years ago or so five maybe pushing

308
00:11:42,470 --> 00:11:41,120
six

309
00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:42,480
i was

310
00:11:47,509 --> 00:11:44,880
just getting the film off the ground it

311
00:11:49,350 --> 00:11:47,519
was in very very early stages

312
00:11:51,190 --> 00:11:49,360
and there were a handful of people that

313
00:11:52,710 --> 00:11:51,200
i was trying to get to one of which was

314
00:11:54,790 --> 00:11:52,720
colonel william p coleman who's public

315
00:11:56,870 --> 00:11:54,800
spokesman for project blue book the

316
00:11:58,710 --> 00:11:56,880
pentagon

317
00:12:02,310 --> 00:11:58,720
who

318
00:12:03,910 --> 00:12:02,320
had a dramatic an extremely dramatic uh

319
00:12:07,910 --> 00:12:03,920
encounter with a flying saucer while

320
00:12:09,350 --> 00:12:07,920
piloting a b25 in 1955 over alabama

321
00:12:11,990 --> 00:12:09,360
along with a couple of engineers from

322
00:12:14,069 --> 00:12:12,000
allison engines and boeing in in the uh

323
00:12:17,190 --> 00:12:14,079
in the plane with them

324
00:12:19,269 --> 00:12:17,200
and um no one as far as i could tell had

325
00:12:21,110 --> 00:12:19,279
ever gotten him on camera

326
00:12:23,110 --> 00:12:21,120
about this which was shocking to me you

327
00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:23,120
know and i was i remember of the time i

328
00:12:28,389 --> 00:12:25,040
kept saying gotta go get this guy i

329
00:12:30,310 --> 00:12:28,399
gotta get this guy my my my uh financial

330
00:12:31,990 --> 00:12:30,320
backer was going just calm down man

331
00:12:33,190 --> 00:12:32,000
we're gonna put together a plan we're

332
00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:33,200
gonna you know we're gonna go after

333
00:12:37,750 --> 00:12:35,200
these don't worry just like cool your

334
00:12:39,829 --> 00:12:37,760
jets i said no no no we just we got this

335
00:12:41,670 --> 00:12:39,839
guy is so important

336
00:12:44,069 --> 00:12:41,680
i made such a stink that finally he was

337
00:12:45,910 --> 00:12:44,079
like okay go you know go and i

338
00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:45,920
i can't remember how much money i i

339
00:12:48,230 --> 00:12:47,200
needed but it was quite a bit because i

340
00:12:49,910 --> 00:12:48,240
got

341
00:12:51,829 --> 00:12:49,920
you know really good professional audio

342
00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:51,839
and lighting it looks beautiful sat

343
00:12:55,030 --> 00:12:53,040
about at his house and we interviewed

344
00:12:57,190 --> 00:12:55,040
him for about five hours

345
00:12:59,269 --> 00:12:57,200
and i looked over at my camera guys guy

346
00:13:01,590 --> 00:12:59,279
david west and we looked at each other

347
00:13:03,590 --> 00:13:01,600
and he and he knew we go this is going

348
00:13:05,509 --> 00:13:03,600
to be the opening of the whole movie

349
00:13:06,629 --> 00:13:05,519
i knew it right on the spot

350
00:13:08,949 --> 00:13:06,639
because

351
00:13:11,509 --> 00:13:08,959
it's such a it's not just

352
00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:11,519
the the how compelling and exciting the

353
00:13:16,150 --> 00:13:13,360
actual encounter is

354
00:13:17,910 --> 00:13:16,160
because it's absolutely amazing yes

355
00:13:19,750 --> 00:13:17,920
but it's who is saying it this guy was

356
00:13:21,350 --> 00:13:19,760
like part of project blue book right

357
00:13:23,509 --> 00:13:21,360
this is the world war ii pilot this is a

358
00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:23,519
guy that was on the inside

359
00:13:28,790 --> 00:13:27,040
and so uh long story short we uh lee

360
00:13:31,150 --> 00:13:28,800
spiegel actually helped find the

361
00:13:35,350 --> 00:13:31,160
airplane and we found a

362
00:13:38,069 --> 00:13:35,360
1942 i think it was b25 bomber and after

363
00:13:38,949 --> 00:13:38,079
months of negotiations we we we hired it

364
00:13:41,590 --> 00:13:38,959
over

365
00:13:44,310 --> 00:13:41,600
uh actually kind of a day and a half but

366
00:13:45,750 --> 00:13:44,320
and we we got and i said to the guy

367
00:13:47,269 --> 00:13:45,760
right up you know right at the front i

368
00:13:49,030 --> 00:13:47,279
said look if you can't fly this thing at

369
00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:49,040
three top level at maximum speed then

370
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:51,040
we're gonna go somewhere else he goes no

371
00:13:55,990 --> 00:13:52,560
we can do that

372
00:13:58,790 --> 00:13:56,000
shut up now wait wait wait wait so

373
00:14:01,269 --> 00:13:58,800
you're the director so that means

374
00:14:03,189 --> 00:14:01,279
you get to you get to fly in this thing

375
00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:03,199
i was in the belly i was in the nose

376
00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:05,040
cone which is all glass

377
00:14:09,910 --> 00:14:07,440
at tree top level and with the petals of

378
00:14:11,910 --> 00:14:09,920
the metal man it was it was terrifying

379
00:14:13,829 --> 00:14:11,920
it was i'll never forget it

380
00:14:14,949 --> 00:14:13,839
but yeah i was in the nose cone and

381
00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:14,959
trees up

382
00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:17,040
yeah now

383
00:14:20,949 --> 00:14:18,720
we put cameras everywhere cameras on the

384
00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:20,959
ground cameras inside it's such a cool

385
00:14:24,629 --> 00:14:23,760
opening oh my god everyone i show it to

386
00:14:26,230 --> 00:14:24,639
is like

387
00:14:28,389 --> 00:14:26,240
holy moly

388
00:14:30,150 --> 00:14:28,399
how did you guys pull this off of course

389
00:14:32,470 --> 00:14:30,160
i had no money when i first started this

390
00:14:34,069 --> 00:14:32,480
whole thing i mean i just like yeah you

391
00:14:36,069 --> 00:14:34,079
have a concept you have an idea and then

392
00:14:38,470 --> 00:14:36,079
you think about it project what you want

393
00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:38,480
and somehow it manifests you know

394
00:14:43,670 --> 00:14:40,880
how uh i want to continue talking about

395
00:14:45,189 --> 00:14:43,680
the film but i do have to ask you uh how

396
00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:45,199
has

397
00:14:50,710 --> 00:14:47,839
how is your view

398
00:14:52,870 --> 00:14:50,720
of this phenomenon

399
00:14:54,550 --> 00:14:52,880
certainly the film uh yeah i mean how

400
00:14:56,550 --> 00:14:54,560
has it changed over the years where you

401
00:14:58,870 --> 00:14:56,560
know where are we today

402
00:15:00,629 --> 00:14:58,880
because this is the first time

403
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:00,639
that i and if you've seen my previous

404
00:15:05,189 --> 00:15:03,360
works i've never i've never

405
00:15:06,949 --> 00:15:05,199
gone into the intelligence behind the

406
00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:06,959
phenomenon i've never explored that

407
00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:09,600
angle of it right um i've always felt

408
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:12,000
that we needed to take baby steps or

409
00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:14,079
certainly maybe perhaps that i did

410
00:15:18,870 --> 00:15:16,480
and this film we're really digging into

411
00:15:19,750 --> 00:15:18,880
the potential agenda potential

412
00:15:21,430 --> 00:15:19,760
you know everyone's going to have a

413
00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:21,440
different opinion on it and and i've

414
00:15:24,069 --> 00:15:23,040
always maintained a fairly conservative

415
00:15:24,949 --> 00:15:24,079
position

416
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:24,959
but

417
00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:27,120
certainly we explore the intelligence

418
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:28,480
behind it i mean i'm covering close

419
00:15:31,910 --> 00:15:30,079
encounters of the third kind i mean

420
00:15:35,110 --> 00:15:31,920
multiple close encounters of the third

421
00:15:37,750 --> 00:15:35,120
kind in this film from around the world

422
00:15:39,910 --> 00:15:37,760
so uh that in itself is a slippery slope

423
00:15:41,590 --> 00:15:39,920
i mean you tell people like oh yeah ufo

424
00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:41,600
landed at school ground

425
00:15:46,310 --> 00:15:43,920
in africa in 1994 and the occupants got

426
00:15:47,910 --> 00:15:46,320
out and interacted with roughly 60 plus

427
00:15:49,829 --> 00:15:47,920
school children in broad daylight people

428
00:15:51,269 --> 00:15:49,839
look like you know uh i don't know what

429
00:15:53,350 --> 00:15:51,279
pipe you're smoking buddy but you can

430
00:15:55,110 --> 00:15:53,360
keep on walking i mean who the hell is

431
00:15:57,110 --> 00:15:55,120
going to ever believe that that's right

432
00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:57,120
that's right and

433
00:16:01,829 --> 00:15:59,040
well nobody

434
00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:01,839
uh nobody well i shouldn't say nobody is

435
00:16:04,230 --> 00:16:03,440
going to believe it but

436
00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:04,240
but

437
00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:05,920
the road to rua that's what we kept

438
00:16:10,710 --> 00:16:08,880
reminding ourselves every single day in

439
00:16:12,949 --> 00:16:10,720
the edit room where are we going it's

440
00:16:16,310 --> 00:16:12,959
the road to ruin this film builds and

441
00:16:18,629 --> 00:16:16,320
culminates with contact in africa and if

442
00:16:20,310 --> 00:16:18,639
we can build a solid case

443
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:20,320
where we can get even the most ardent

444
00:16:24,790 --> 00:16:23,040
skeptic to consider the possibility that

445
00:16:26,470 --> 00:16:24,800
that might have just happened right then

446
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:26,480
we've done our job and i can tell you

447
00:16:29,829 --> 00:16:28,720
right now that's exactly what this film

448
00:16:32,710 --> 00:16:29,839
does

449
00:16:34,829 --> 00:16:32,720
you've been waiting for disclosure right

450
00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:34,839
and you've had your moments and

451
00:16:39,590 --> 00:16:36,560
and uh

452
00:16:41,350 --> 00:16:39,600
not to to go into the past but when we

453
00:16:44,790 --> 00:16:41,360
look to the future

454
00:16:47,430 --> 00:16:44,800
disclosure seems eminent like we've

455
00:16:50,550 --> 00:16:47,440
never been in this position that we are

456
00:16:52,949 --> 00:16:50,560
in today james and you know this are are

457
00:16:54,870 --> 00:16:52,959
we getting close is this film gonna help

458
00:16:56,870 --> 00:16:54,880
push the narrative

459
00:16:58,629 --> 00:16:56,880
so uh you know i've never been a huge

460
00:17:01,749 --> 00:16:58,639
proponent of any sort of government

461
00:17:03,509 --> 00:17:01,759
disclosure in some respects

462
00:17:04,870 --> 00:17:03,519
it's it's kind of happened i know people

463
00:17:07,029 --> 00:17:04,880
are going to argue with me on that one

464
00:17:07,990 --> 00:17:07,039
but it kind of has happened to a certain

465
00:17:09,750 --> 00:17:08,000
extent

466
00:17:11,669 --> 00:17:09,760
and it continues to seem to happen there

467
00:17:13,909 --> 00:17:11,679
seems to be a movement i remember 2007

468
00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:13,919
2008 was pretty exciting time we had a

469
00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:15,280
lot of stuff going on at that point then

470
00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:17,360
we had kind of a lull for a while

471
00:17:20,789 --> 00:17:19,600
um and then uh it started to peak again

472
00:17:23,270 --> 00:17:20,799
obviously the front page the new york

473
00:17:25,829 --> 00:17:23,280
times with the atip story uh that was

474
00:17:28,150 --> 00:17:25,839
certainly and and then the the level of

475
00:17:30,230 --> 00:17:28,160
access that we've managed to get in this

476
00:17:31,990 --> 00:17:30,240
film uh and you haven't even seen all of

477
00:17:33,270 --> 00:17:32,000
it like i mean you're believe me when

478
00:17:34,789 --> 00:17:33,280
you see the other some of the other

479
00:17:35,990 --> 00:17:34,799
interviews we got i mean they're they're

480
00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:36,000
not mincing their words and they're

481
00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:37,520
talking about what they believe is

482
00:17:40,710 --> 00:17:39,360
behind the phenomenon i mean with the

483
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:40,720
fact that it's real

484
00:17:42,710 --> 00:17:41,760
uh so

485
00:17:44,549 --> 00:17:42,720
uh

486
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:44,559
and i think that

487
00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:46,480
i think that

488
00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:48,400
with films like this

489
00:17:51,909 --> 00:17:50,400
it's a safe environment people can

490
00:17:53,590 --> 00:17:51,919
realize it's a safe environment they're

491
00:17:55,830 --> 00:17:53,600
not going to be ridiculed people like

492
00:17:57,990 --> 00:17:55,840
the people that we've interviewed have

493
00:17:59,110 --> 00:17:58,000
you know signed off on okay this is not

494
00:18:01,669 --> 00:17:59,120
this is a this is a credible

495
00:18:03,029 --> 00:18:01,679
presentation you're not twisting the the

496
00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:03,039
the facts

497
00:18:07,110 --> 00:18:05,600
uh it's presented just the way

498
00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:07,120
it's delivered just the way you said it

499
00:18:10,070 --> 00:18:08,480
was going to be delivered and i think

500
00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:10,080
that's going to encourage more people to

501
00:18:16,710 --> 00:18:12,960
come forward that it's not

502
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:18,390
jeopardize their credibility by coming

503
00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:20,480
forward do you see what i'm saying yes

504
00:18:23,669 --> 00:18:21,840
because a lot of people are concerned

505
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:23,679
about that and i think that

506
00:18:28,950 --> 00:18:26,640
with you know raising the bar on this

507
00:18:30,630 --> 00:18:28,960
um i think it'll encourage more

508
00:18:32,310 --> 00:18:30,640
government and military officials to

509
00:18:34,710 --> 00:18:32,320
feel more comfortable to come forward

510
00:18:36,549 --> 00:18:34,720
and i i can't imagine that not happening

511
00:18:37,909 --> 00:18:36,559
once this film comes out

512
00:18:40,230 --> 00:18:37,919
when uh

513
00:18:42,549 --> 00:18:40,240
we've got a few minutes before the break

514
00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:42,559
and i want to discuss specifically some

515
00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:44,160
of these cases

516
00:18:48,950 --> 00:18:47,200
and uh that you feature in the film and

517
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:48,960
you've chosen

518
00:18:52,870 --> 00:18:50,880
well two of the cases i think are some

519
00:18:54,630 --> 00:18:52,880
of the most incredible they're all uh

520
00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:54,640
some of the most incredible but

521
00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:57,360
uh that that two that just aren't

522
00:19:02,710 --> 00:19:00,240
discussed in ufology like they should be

523
00:19:04,950 --> 00:19:02,720
and we'll talk about those which is of

524
00:19:08,390 --> 00:19:04,960
course melbourne and westall

525
00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:08,400
and uh rua but before we we'll do that

526
00:19:15,590 --> 00:19:11,840
after the break but you you chose to

527
00:19:18,549 --> 00:19:15,600
cover lonnie zamora and and socorro uh

528
00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:18,559
which happened in 1964 in new mexico a

529
00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:19,520
pretty

530
00:19:27,270 --> 00:19:25,200
student of ufology because it's there

531
00:19:28,549 --> 00:19:27,280
for us and it's it's it's fairly

532
00:19:30,950 --> 00:19:28,559
documented

533
00:19:32,070 --> 00:19:30,960
but the other part of the lonnie case

534
00:19:34,950 --> 00:19:32,080
for me

535
00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:34,960
is it's also kind of been pushed to the

536
00:19:38,950 --> 00:19:37,120
side a little bit and

537
00:19:40,870 --> 00:19:38,960
and you chose to feature it in this film

538
00:19:42,789 --> 00:19:40,880
why

539
00:19:45,110 --> 00:19:42,799
well you know i have to give credit to

540
00:19:46,789 --> 00:19:45,120
tracy tormey for that because he was the

541
00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:46,799
one that was like you know this case

542
00:19:49,590 --> 00:19:48,720
really changed everything and it was a

543
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:49,600
really

544
00:19:54,070 --> 00:19:51,600
you know one of the most profound

545
00:19:56,710 --> 00:19:54,080
credible close encounters of the third

546
00:19:59,430 --> 00:19:56,720
kind in modern us history well

547
00:20:01,750 --> 00:19:59,440
documented part of project blue book

548
00:20:03,430 --> 00:20:01,760
turning point for dr heineck

549
00:20:05,510 --> 00:20:03,440
and i remember thinking god yeah but

550
00:20:07,830 --> 00:20:05,520
it's 50 years old come on we need to

551
00:20:09,510 --> 00:20:07,840
focus on more but long story short i

552
00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:09,520
started delving into it more and more

553
00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:11,280
and then over a five year period i got

554
00:20:14,789 --> 00:20:13,280
to know his family and all his friends

555
00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:14,799
and co-workers and

556
00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:17,840
i interviewed all of them on camera with

557
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:19,440
his daughter

558
00:20:22,870 --> 00:20:20,640
his wife

559
00:20:24,789 --> 00:20:22,880
what lonnie would look like when he came

560
00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:24,799
home the effect it had on his life and

561
00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:26,400
his personal life and his professional

562
00:20:30,390 --> 00:20:27,360
life

563
00:20:32,149 --> 00:20:30,400
um you know how it affected the military

564
00:20:34,390 --> 00:20:32,159
you know how it affected the the first

565
00:20:35,510 --> 00:20:34,400
military officer and his kids that were

566
00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:35,520
on the scene

567
00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:36,400
um

568
00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:38,480
it was it was a game changer you know

569
00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:40,400
it's one of those cases where it's one

570
00:20:43,270 --> 00:20:41,760
thing to talk about

571
00:20:44,630 --> 00:20:43,280
uh unknown objects whizzing around in

572
00:20:47,110 --> 00:20:44,640
the sky it's another thing to talk about

573
00:20:50,230 --> 00:20:47,120
creatures on the ground you know so

574
00:20:54,070 --> 00:20:50,240
um and it was and it was chocked full of

575
00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:54,080
of physical uh evidence you know even

576
00:20:57,669 --> 00:20:55,840
down to potential scrapings of metal

577
00:20:59,990 --> 00:20:57,679
from the landing gear on rocks

578
00:21:01,350 --> 00:21:00,000
and landing pads and burnt scorched

579
00:21:04,149 --> 00:21:01,360
bushes and

580
00:21:05,830 --> 00:21:04,159
um it was a you know a police officer

581
00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:05,840
you know i mean like

582
00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:08,080
uh so we we delved into it we went to

583
00:21:12,149 --> 00:21:09,520
the national archives actually went with

584
00:21:14,710 --> 00:21:12,159
ray stanford who wrote the book uh

585
00:21:16,310 --> 00:21:14,720
pentagon uh pentagon

586
00:21:18,149 --> 00:21:16,320
what was it flying saucer to pentagon

587
00:21:19,350 --> 00:21:18,159
pantry and it wasn't exactly a flying

588
00:21:21,029 --> 00:21:19,360
saucer it was more like an egg-shaped

589
00:21:22,630 --> 00:21:21,039
craft but just you know i guess he

590
00:21:24,870 --> 00:21:22,640
called that just for

591
00:21:26,549 --> 00:21:24,880
ease but uh we went there we uncovered

592
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:26,559
some documents about the symbol the

593
00:21:29,909 --> 00:21:28,080
original symbols on the craft we found

594
00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:29,919
that for the first time ever and a

595
00:21:34,310 --> 00:21:31,840
number of other really incredible

596
00:21:35,909 --> 00:21:34,320
original documents not microfilms

597
00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:35,919
so we got some we got a fresh look at

598
00:21:38,950 --> 00:21:37,760
the case we've got some fresh testimony

599
00:21:39,990 --> 00:21:38,960
on the case

600
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:40,000
um

601
00:21:43,909 --> 00:21:41,760
were you able to yeah

602
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:43,919
were you able to chase down the family

603
00:21:50,070 --> 00:21:46,960
that was at the gas station

604
00:21:51,750 --> 00:21:50,080
no i didn't i no i didn't uh i didn't no

605
00:21:53,830 --> 00:21:51,760
i did not

606
00:21:55,669 --> 00:21:53,840
i don't even think i tried

607
00:21:58,070 --> 00:21:55,679
um

608
00:22:00,549 --> 00:21:58,080
grinder talked about it that guy billy

609
00:22:02,390 --> 00:22:00,559
was it billy grinder yeah

610
00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:02,400
yes yeah but he didn't even know who

611
00:22:05,669 --> 00:22:03,760
they were so there was like a wild goose

612
00:22:07,190 --> 00:22:05,679
face i mean you know he was just

613
00:22:08,470 --> 00:22:07,200
he didn't know anything about them i

614
00:22:10,149 --> 00:22:08,480
don't think he knew what their license

615
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:10,159
plate was where they're from but there

616
00:22:13,029 --> 00:22:12,240
were other paul kratzner and someone

617
00:22:14,789 --> 00:22:13,039
else

618
00:22:16,870 --> 00:22:14,799
i when i was it's really funny actually

619
00:22:20,070 --> 00:22:16,880
when i was in the national archives i

620
00:22:23,909 --> 00:22:21,909
correspondence from

621
00:22:24,830 --> 00:22:23,919
to and from a number of things i learned

622
00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:24,840
to and

623
00:22:28,470 --> 00:22:27,120
from um

624
00:22:31,110 --> 00:22:28,480
dr heineck

625
00:22:32,950 --> 00:22:31,120
from the local newspaper from newspapers

626
00:22:34,870 --> 00:22:32,960
saying basically look we've

627
00:22:36,390 --> 00:22:34,880
there were other witnesses this guy paul

628
00:22:38,789 --> 00:22:36,400
kratz and someone else i can't remember

629
00:22:41,110 --> 00:22:38,799
his name off the top of my head but

630
00:22:43,350 --> 00:22:41,120
but they were actually sending the names

631
00:22:44,789 --> 00:22:43,360
and addresses of additional eyewitness

632
00:22:46,230 --> 00:22:44,799
testimony

633
00:22:48,149 --> 00:22:46,240
to heinek

634
00:22:50,230 --> 00:22:48,159
and yet and heinrich was recognizing

635
00:22:52,789 --> 00:22:50,240
that and like hey here's their name

636
00:22:55,110 --> 00:22:52,799
here's their address we did a report on

637
00:22:57,590 --> 00:22:55,120
it you know go for it you know kind of

638
00:22:59,029 --> 00:22:57,600
thing but they were

639
00:23:00,549 --> 00:22:59,039
you know they didn't want to have

640
00:23:02,390 --> 00:23:00,559
additional eyewitness testimony i'm sure

641
00:23:04,870 --> 00:23:02,400
that heinek did but the air force didn't

642
00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:04,880
because that bolsters the case even more

643
00:23:07,990 --> 00:23:06,400
right so

644
00:23:10,230 --> 00:23:08,000
um and all sorts of into there was that

645
00:23:12,070 --> 00:23:10,240
there was a film crew there within i

646
00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:12,080
don't know six or eight months

647
00:23:16,549 --> 00:23:14,720
from a company called empire studios

648
00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:16,559
and it was dr frank strange's and

649
00:23:21,669 --> 00:23:18,640
another guy named michael musto who were

650
00:23:23,510 --> 00:23:21,679
doing a producing a film on 16 color

651
00:23:24,470 --> 00:23:23,520
uh 16 color

652
00:23:26,710 --> 00:23:24,480
cameras

653
00:23:29,110 --> 00:23:26,720
on on the case and they spent like 40

654
00:23:30,470 --> 00:23:29,120
minutes of the film on that specific

655
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:30,480
case i

656
00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:32,400
and the military was super concerned

657
00:23:35,590 --> 00:23:34,000
about it and they were having

658
00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:35,600
heineken go and check out what was going

659
00:23:39,909 --> 00:23:37,760
on and why was lonnie participating and

660
00:23:41,909 --> 00:23:39,919
this is going to you know resurface all

661
00:23:43,990 --> 00:23:41,919
these questions we're not they were not

662
00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:44,000
able to answer and i did spend about

663
00:23:48,270 --> 00:23:45,520
three or four years going after this

664
00:23:50,710 --> 00:23:48,280
film it's called phenomenon

665
00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:50,720
7.7 i think it was

666
00:23:55,110 --> 00:23:53,360
and uh i i never found it

667
00:23:57,750 --> 00:23:55,120
right now i never found it

668
00:23:59,669 --> 00:23:57,760
but it does apparently evidently it does

669
00:24:02,549 --> 00:23:59,679
well it would be color film footage of

670
00:24:04,070 --> 00:24:02,559
of all the witnesses all the town

671
00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:04,080
everything right after it happened it

672
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:06,400
would have been priceless with frank

673
00:24:11,430 --> 00:24:09,120
strange's no doubt right wow

674
00:24:14,149 --> 00:24:11,440
well i it was it's eventually owned by

675
00:24:15,350 --> 00:24:14,159
turner classics they they have a little

676
00:24:17,350 --> 00:24:15,360
blurb on it

677
00:24:19,190 --> 00:24:17,360
on the internet you can google i went

678
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:19,200
after the owner of turner classics i

679
00:24:23,110 --> 00:24:20,640
actually went into the library there i

680
00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:23,120
mean i did i went to the gentleman who

681
00:24:27,269 --> 00:24:25,200
who produced it michael mousse he had

682
00:24:29,510 --> 00:24:27,279
just died i got a hold of his wife i

683
00:24:31,350 --> 00:24:29,520
went through all of her dead husband's

684
00:24:33,269 --> 00:24:31,360
affairs and all these storage containers

685
00:24:34,630 --> 00:24:33,279
took me weeks in the hot sun of la with

686
00:24:37,269 --> 00:24:34,640
no ventilation

687
00:24:39,110 --> 00:24:37,279
i went all out man i could not get my

688
00:24:40,630 --> 00:24:39,120
sticky little fingers on it but i did

689
00:24:42,390 --> 00:24:40,640
and some people the ufo community had

690
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:42,400
talked about thinking they'd seen it in

691
00:24:47,110 --> 00:24:45,440
the very late 60s early 70s at giant

692
00:24:50,470 --> 00:24:47,120
rock

693
00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:50,480
interesting really anybody yeah i do if

694
00:24:56,870 --> 00:24:54,480
anybody's heard of it phenomenon 7.7

695
00:24:58,950 --> 00:24:56,880
that's uh i'm sitting here racking my

696
00:25:00,630 --> 00:24:58,960
brain when i you know just like you i

697
00:25:02,549 --> 00:25:00,640
think i've seen it all

698
00:25:04,470 --> 00:25:02,559
right it's you know it's my job you know

699
00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:04,480
i and i enjoy it i seek this stuff out

700
00:25:07,269 --> 00:25:06,400
i've never heard of it never heard of it

701
00:25:12,230 --> 00:25:07,279
let's take

702
00:25:14,310 --> 00:25:12,240
tonight is james fox talking about his

703
00:25:15,590 --> 00:25:14,320
new film it's finally here it's called

704
00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:15,600
the phenomenon

705
00:25:20,070 --> 00:25:16,960
it will be

706
00:25:23,909 --> 00:25:20,080
in major theatrical release later on

707
00:25:25,269 --> 00:25:23,919
this year in 2019 by the orchard our

708
00:25:27,909 --> 00:25:25,279
murals jimmy church our guest tonight

709
00:25:30,549 --> 00:25:27,919
james fox more after this short break

710
00:25:35,269 --> 00:25:33,350
you're listening to a preview of fade to

711
00:25:37,669 --> 00:25:35,279
black to get the full episode go to

712
00:25:40,390 --> 00:25:37,679
jimmychurchradio.com

713
00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:40,400
and get our podcast click on the podcast

714
00:25:46,230 --> 00:25:43,200
banner or sign up in the membership area

715
00:25:49,269 --> 00:25:46,240
for downloadable mp3s everything

716
00:25:53,110 --> 00:25:51,190
welcome back fade to black i am your

717
00:25:55,830 --> 00:25:53,120
host jimmy church on the game changer

718
00:25:57,510 --> 00:25:55,840
network and kgra the planet you can

719
00:26:00,390 --> 00:25:57,520
follow me on twitter right now join the

720
00:26:02,630 --> 00:26:00,400
conversation at j church radio that's

721
00:26:05,110 --> 00:26:02,640
what you want to do we're posting images

722
00:26:08,789 --> 00:26:05,120
that uh james has sent us

723
00:26:11,909 --> 00:26:08,799
of the production and that b25 shot

724
00:26:13,669 --> 00:26:11,919
is absolutely epic it doesn't get any

725
00:26:14,710 --> 00:26:13,679
more epic than magic

726
00:26:16,870 --> 00:26:14,720
the uh

727
00:26:18,230 --> 00:26:16,880
the cases uh let's pick up where we left

728
00:26:20,549 --> 00:26:18,240
off the cases

729
00:26:21,510 --> 00:26:20,559
uh that you've chosen here

730
00:26:25,830 --> 00:26:21,520
uh

731
00:26:29,190 --> 00:26:25,840
one of them

732
00:26:32,549 --> 00:26:29,200
is uh we just discussed uh uh lonnie

733
00:26:34,950 --> 00:26:32,559
zamora but in 1966 what happened in

734
00:26:36,470 --> 00:26:34,960
melbourne uh in west all outside of

735
00:26:39,110 --> 00:26:36,480
melbourne

736
00:26:40,630 --> 00:26:39,120
at the elementary school there and

737
00:26:42,390 --> 00:26:40,640
incredible

738
00:26:44,710 --> 00:26:42,400
you were able to

739
00:26:47,269 --> 00:26:44,720
interview some of the uh kids who are

740
00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:47,279
now adults right

741
00:26:52,630 --> 00:26:49,520
you know what's crazy about it is in the

742
00:26:54,390 --> 00:26:52,640
middle of working on that segment

743
00:26:56,710 --> 00:26:54,400
i realized i'm going wait a minute

744
00:26:57,830 --> 00:26:56,720
what's the time difference i'm going to

745
00:26:59,350 --> 00:26:57,840
simply

746
00:27:01,029 --> 00:26:59,360
couldn't put kind of putting it together

747
00:27:02,710 --> 00:27:01,039
and going you know we had congressional

748
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:02,720
hearings on ufos

749
00:27:09,990 --> 00:27:06,400
in washington dc in 1966 in april i'm

750
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:10,000
looking at it going okay so after

751
00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:12,240
the congressional hearings were as they

752
00:27:15,110 --> 00:27:14,240
were ending around five o'clock in the

753
00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:15,120
evening

754
00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:17,360
in washington dc

755
00:27:23,510 --> 00:27:20,880
flying saucers were landing in australia

756
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:23,520
at a school literally at that time so

757
00:27:27,269 --> 00:27:24,720
while they were probably having dinner

758
00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:27,279
that night clients also were landing

759
00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:30,480
kalwa harris very kindly uh

760
00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:31,919
thank god put me in touch with the

761
00:27:37,029 --> 00:27:34,240
gentleman named james rigney who

762
00:27:38,149 --> 00:27:37,039
eventually they invited me to australia

763
00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:38,159
to cover this case i'm going to be

764
00:27:42,070 --> 00:27:40,080
honest with you i was kind of skeptical

765
00:27:43,510 --> 00:27:42,080
when it comes to a school landing case

766
00:27:44,870 --> 00:27:43,520
you know broad daylight hundreds of

767
00:27:46,710 --> 00:27:44,880
witnesses like

768
00:27:50,470 --> 00:27:46,720
really how come i haven't heard about it

769
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:50,480
you know what i mean right uh but these

770
00:27:53,909 --> 00:27:52,320
researchers uh

771
00:27:55,590 --> 00:27:53,919
really plugged me in i mean it was

772
00:27:57,029 --> 00:27:55,600
actually quite a phenomenal trip i mean

773
00:27:59,430 --> 00:27:57,039
we arrived we hit the ground running in

774
00:28:02,389 --> 00:27:59,440
australia we were there for a month

775
00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:02,399
and um did a lot of uh promotional stuff

776
00:28:06,310 --> 00:28:03,840
i guess i don't know something happened

777
00:28:08,870 --> 00:28:06,320
where i did a couple of radio and tv

778
00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:08,880
spots and it just kind of took off and

779
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:09,679
and

780
00:28:17,590 --> 00:28:16,000
we got people to come forward that had

781
00:28:19,510 --> 00:28:17,600
never come forward we got a gentleman

782
00:28:22,070 --> 00:28:19,520
who took a photograph of it he'd never

783
00:28:25,029 --> 00:28:22,080
come forward to come forward on camera

784
00:28:28,070 --> 00:28:25,039
um so some really great new breaks in

785
00:28:31,350 --> 00:28:28,080
this story and and um and just overall

786
00:28:33,669 --> 00:28:31,360
just an absolutely phenomenal case

787
00:28:36,070 --> 00:28:33,679
of a landing where people got within 10

788
00:28:37,669 --> 00:28:36,080
12 feet of it on the ground

789
00:28:39,669 --> 00:28:37,679
did you

790
00:28:42,070 --> 00:28:39,679
just say that

791
00:28:44,630 --> 00:28:42,080
somebody snapped a picture

792
00:28:46,870 --> 00:28:44,640
does the picture exist

793
00:28:48,789 --> 00:28:46,880
yes did you just i held it i held it in

794
00:28:50,149 --> 00:28:48,799
my hand with the polaroid is it in the

795
00:28:53,029 --> 00:28:50,159
film

796
00:28:53,990 --> 00:28:53,039
yes of course it is

797
00:28:57,590 --> 00:28:54,000
of course

798
00:28:59,990 --> 00:28:57,600
first time ever first time ever you know

799
00:29:01,909 --> 00:29:00,000
uh i got a high resolution scan of it of

800
00:29:03,909 --> 00:29:01,919
the original i held it in my hand i

801
00:29:05,830 --> 00:29:03,919
couldn't believe it can i can i throw

802
00:29:07,350 --> 00:29:05,840
you under the bus a little bit and share

803
00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:07,360
some of our private

804
00:29:11,269 --> 00:29:08,640
um

805
00:29:13,430 --> 00:29:11,279
i'm just gonna let the audience know uh

806
00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:13,440
james and i every time we we talk on the

807
00:29:17,510 --> 00:29:14,480
phone

808
00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:17,520
i i catch myself saying man dude i just

809
00:29:20,549 --> 00:29:19,600
don't like you anymore

810
00:29:29,510 --> 00:29:20,559
you

811
00:29:32,789 --> 00:29:29,520
and this is this it's that's one of the

812
00:29:35,269 --> 00:29:32,799
holy grail situations in ufology but

813
00:29:38,310 --> 00:29:35,279
when we look at the westall case

814
00:29:40,870 --> 00:29:38,320
with uh hundreds of witnesses

815
00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:40,880
uh a complete cover-up by the local

816
00:29:46,789 --> 00:29:43,760
media the newspapers and the the

817
00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:46,799
television uh stations that all covered

818
00:29:53,110 --> 00:29:50,399
the case and then suddenly uh uh the

819
00:29:56,549 --> 00:29:53,120
media was pulled from it were you able

820
00:29:58,549 --> 00:29:56,559
to go and see the original uh

821
00:29:59,750 --> 00:29:58,559
television coverage

822
00:30:02,149 --> 00:29:59,760
well it's funny you should say that

823
00:30:04,149 --> 00:30:02,159
because i actually went on the the the

824
00:30:06,230 --> 00:30:04,159
station that covered it at the time

825
00:30:09,669 --> 00:30:06,240
right and it was a re it was a a

826
00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:09,679
wonderful research uh shane ryan uh who

827
00:30:12,710 --> 00:30:11,120
had informed you what had happened and i

828
00:30:14,310 --> 00:30:12,720
had actually inquired about it while i

829
00:30:17,029 --> 00:30:14,320
was at the tv station i mean i was i was

830
00:30:20,070 --> 00:30:17,039
there going on their station and so i

831
00:30:22,630 --> 00:30:20,080
was like hey what about they said well

832
00:30:25,029 --> 00:30:22,640
the box where the tape was in was still

833
00:30:27,909 --> 00:30:25,039
labeled you know westall ufo incident

834
00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:27,919
and the tape inside was gone and when

835
00:30:32,630 --> 00:30:30,480
the object landed within

836
00:30:34,789 --> 00:30:32,640
20 minutes or less

837
00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:34,799
of this thing taken off again military

838
00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:36,880
trucks and military presence arrived the

839
00:30:39,909 --> 00:30:38,640
media was interviewing the students i

840
00:30:41,669 --> 00:30:39,919
mean i talked to the students they were

841
00:30:43,750 --> 00:30:41,679
telling me i was at the school

842
00:30:45,269 --> 00:30:43,760
the media was there interviewing the

843
00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:45,279
students the students were telling

844
00:30:48,870 --> 00:30:46,880
explaining what happened hundreds of

845
00:30:50,310 --> 00:30:48,880
people saw this okay

846
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:50,320
and and there were pilots flying

847
00:30:53,430 --> 00:30:51,600
overhead as well so there's a local

848
00:30:55,190 --> 00:30:53,440
airport not too far down down the way

849
00:30:58,389 --> 00:30:55,200
and there were some small aircraft that

850
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:58,399
were being you know curious and flying

851
00:31:01,830 --> 00:31:00,080
around this thing getting evidently

852
00:31:04,870 --> 00:31:01,840
dangerously close but anyway the

853
00:31:08,389 --> 00:31:04,880
military arrived shut it down

854
00:31:11,269 --> 00:31:08,399
shut everything down when you and then

855
00:31:13,909 --> 00:31:11,279
oh i keep interrupting you james i am so

856
00:31:14,710 --> 00:31:13,919
rude don't be talking too much but the

857
00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:14,720
the

858
00:31:22,789 --> 00:31:22,080
documentary

859
00:31:23,830 --> 00:31:22,799
but

860
00:31:25,909 --> 00:31:23,840
when you

861
00:31:26,789 --> 00:31:25,919
you were able to go to the elementary

862
00:31:28,389 --> 00:31:26,799
school

863
00:31:29,909 --> 00:31:28,399
and the way that they presented in the

864
00:31:31,669 --> 00:31:29,919
documentary it's a really it's a

865
00:31:34,070 --> 00:31:31,679
well-made documentary it's excellent

866
00:31:37,430 --> 00:31:34,080
it's uh on every level but

867
00:31:39,909 --> 00:31:37,440
i've often wondered what the view out to

868
00:31:42,310 --> 00:31:39,919
the field and through the trees

869
00:31:45,269 --> 00:31:42,320
would be in person

870
00:31:47,110 --> 00:31:45,279
and and you went we i brought my drone

871
00:31:49,350 --> 00:31:47,120
and i and i flew exactly where the

872
00:31:51,590 --> 00:31:49,360
flying saucer was flying

873
00:31:53,509 --> 00:31:51,600
i i landed my drone exactly where the

874
00:31:55,990 --> 00:31:53,519
flying saucer landed exactly with the

875
00:31:58,630 --> 00:31:56,000
witnesses that were there we flew the

876
00:32:00,710 --> 00:31:58,640
the the drone directly over the tower

877
00:32:03,110 --> 00:32:00,720
that same power tower that was

878
00:32:05,430 --> 00:32:03,120
uh that was there at the time in 1966

879
00:32:06,950 --> 00:32:05,440
exactly where it was initially spotted

880
00:32:08,470 --> 00:32:06,960
um and then we interviewed the school

881
00:32:10,230 --> 00:32:08,480
teacher who's never gone on the record

882
00:32:11,990 --> 00:32:10,240
before the science teacher i'm not

883
00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:12,000
allowed to say his name or the radio but

884
00:32:16,470 --> 00:32:14,320
we interviewed him and he explained why

885
00:32:18,389 --> 00:32:16,480
he'd gone dark for 50 years was he the

886
00:32:20,870 --> 00:32:18,399
teacher that took the pictures but they

887
00:32:23,590 --> 00:32:20,880
took the camera from him

888
00:32:24,789 --> 00:32:23,600
no but there was talk of that there was

889
00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:24,799
talk with some of the students were

890
00:32:28,870 --> 00:32:26,960
talking about that at the time right now

891
00:32:31,509 --> 00:32:28,880
don't you remember so-and-so she had her

892
00:32:33,509 --> 00:32:31,519
camera it was okay they they weren't it

893
00:32:35,029 --> 00:32:33,519
was more like more like hearsay but they

894
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:35,039
did talk about that

895
00:32:38,389 --> 00:32:36,480
that incident now this guy lived about

896
00:32:40,630 --> 00:32:38,399
12 kilometers away and he he took a

897
00:32:41,590 --> 00:32:40,640
photograph of it in the air right above

898
00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:41,600
his house

899
00:32:45,110 --> 00:32:44,240
it's a very good photograph like really

900
00:32:50,710 --> 00:32:45,120
good

901
00:32:53,350 --> 00:32:50,720
i i mean i i give it

902
00:32:55,830 --> 00:32:53,360
it's it's really good so every everyone

903
00:32:57,269 --> 00:32:55,840
who's seen it's like holy jesus really

904
00:32:59,190 --> 00:32:57,279
yeah it's really good points of

905
00:33:01,509 --> 00:32:59,200
reference in focus

906
00:33:02,470 --> 00:33:01,519
it's you know i was always told from

907
00:33:04,389 --> 00:33:02,480
people who

908
00:33:06,549 --> 00:33:04,399
do you know photographic analysis work

909
00:33:08,789 --> 00:33:06,559
with ufos that if it's a if it's a

910
00:33:11,509 --> 00:33:08,799
crystal clear sharp edge around the

911
00:33:13,350 --> 00:33:11,519
around the ufo then it's probably a hoax

912
00:33:16,310 --> 00:33:13,360
and that because the ufos have somehow

913
00:33:17,509 --> 00:33:16,320
distort the the the space around them

914
00:33:19,669 --> 00:33:17,519
sure and that

915
00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:19,679
the lines are kind of fuzzied whatever

916
00:33:23,669 --> 00:33:21,840
and that's exactly what this is but it's

917
00:33:26,230 --> 00:33:23,679
sure it's i mean the sun's reflected off

918
00:33:28,070 --> 00:33:26,240
it's there man it's it's really good in

919
00:33:29,750 --> 00:33:28,080
fact he was he was he was telling me

920
00:33:31,909 --> 00:33:29,760
he's like you know i saw at first i saw

921
00:33:33,430 --> 00:33:31,919
this glint sprite thing above me i

922
00:33:35,110 --> 00:33:33,440
looked up and i couldn't believe it and

923
00:33:36,710 --> 00:33:35,120
he had a polaroid camera in his hands

924
00:33:38,789 --> 00:33:36,720
because he was taking photographs of his

925
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:38,799
of his mother's garden to send her

926
00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:39,840
pictures

927
00:33:44,630 --> 00:33:42,720
and and he in his hasty pulled the

928
00:33:47,110 --> 00:33:44,640
camera up so fast that he smacked

929
00:33:48,310 --> 00:33:47,120
himself in the in the nose and split his

930
00:33:49,990 --> 00:33:48,320
nose open

931
00:33:52,310 --> 00:33:50,000
and blood was coming down his face but

932
00:33:54,870 --> 00:33:52,320
he at the same time he triggered the

933
00:33:58,149 --> 00:33:54,880
button and he got the shot

934
00:33:59,430 --> 00:33:58,159
now let's uh let's move over to africa

935
00:34:02,230 --> 00:33:59,440
from

936
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:02,240
uh australia uh but

937
00:34:06,310 --> 00:34:04,080
obviously

938
00:34:07,190 --> 00:34:06,320
one of the most interesting aspects of

939
00:34:09,109 --> 00:34:07,200
this

940
00:34:12,230 --> 00:34:09,119
uh even though we're talking about

941
00:34:15,589 --> 00:34:12,240
almost 30 years between the incidents uh

942
00:34:18,310 --> 00:34:15,599
west all being in 66 in 1994 what

943
00:34:22,149 --> 00:34:18,320
happened in rua but it was another

944
00:34:24,550 --> 00:34:22,159
elementary school uh with again dozens

945
00:34:26,869 --> 00:34:24,560
and dozens of students that witnessed

946
00:34:28,389 --> 00:34:26,879
this and also

947
00:34:31,510 --> 00:34:28,399
communicated

948
00:34:34,230 --> 00:34:31,520
uh with this uh strange being

949
00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:34,240
uh what happened in rua and now you went

950
00:34:40,310 --> 00:34:37,440
to ruwa you were also able to interview

951
00:34:41,589 --> 00:34:40,320
the students who are now adults

952
00:34:44,470 --> 00:34:41,599
yes

953
00:34:46,149 --> 00:34:44,480
um

954
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:46,159
so i gotta be honest with you the first

955
00:34:49,990 --> 00:34:48,480
time i heard about this case is i was

956
00:34:52,230 --> 00:34:50,000
just dumb enough to think i could get an

957
00:34:54,550 --> 00:34:52,240
interview with steven spielberg back in

958
00:34:56,790 --> 00:34:54,560
the 90s i knew someone we had a mutual

959
00:34:58,710 --> 00:34:56,800
friends woman named jenny yang

960
00:35:00,390 --> 00:34:58,720
and um

961
00:35:01,910 --> 00:35:00,400
she was like well you know after some

962
00:35:03,190 --> 00:35:01,920
time going back and forth she's like

963
00:35:05,829 --> 00:35:03,200
well you know

964
00:35:07,750 --> 00:35:05,839
uh yeah spielberg's not going to meet

965
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:07,760
with you but he does want you to know

966
00:35:10,630 --> 00:35:09,200
that there was a laning case in africa

967
00:35:12,710 --> 00:35:10,640
that's pretty phenomenal you know and i

968
00:35:14,069 --> 00:35:12,720
thought yeah right

969
00:35:15,589 --> 00:35:14,079
i didn't even believe it i did in fact i

970
00:35:17,670 --> 00:35:15,599
didn't even look into it i was just i

971
00:35:19,589 --> 00:35:17,680
dismissed it immediately

972
00:35:23,030 --> 00:35:19,599
and then i i heard about a couple more

973
00:35:24,150 --> 00:35:23,040
times over the years and then i met um

974
00:35:26,470 --> 00:35:24,160
uh uh

975
00:35:30,390 --> 00:35:26,480
randall randall nick knickers nickerson

976
00:35:32,069 --> 00:35:30,400
i think it is he's doing a film on it uh

977
00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:32,079
i tried to remember the name of the of

978
00:35:36,710 --> 00:35:34,800
the film but it's just on rue itself

979
00:35:38,069 --> 00:35:36,720
and i talked to him in 2007 we did the

980
00:35:40,470 --> 00:35:38,079
national press club event with leslie

981
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:40,480
kane to the mutual friend

982
00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:42,240
and and it sort of got me more

983
00:35:46,950 --> 00:35:45,119
interested and then i you know i looked

984
00:35:48,630 --> 00:35:46,960
into it more and more and more and then

985
00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:48,640
you know i ended up

986
00:35:53,510 --> 00:35:51,359
meeting uh the witnesses the children

987
00:35:56,390 --> 00:35:53,520
now adults bringing them together for

988
00:35:57,430 --> 00:35:56,400
the first time with randall's help

989
00:35:58,790 --> 00:35:57,440
and

990
00:36:00,630 --> 00:35:58,800
brought them together for the first time

991
00:36:02,550 --> 00:36:00,640
in 20 years and then i went to africa

992
00:36:04,550 --> 00:36:02,560
and met with more of the witnesses and

993
00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:04,560
met with the teacher who turned out to

994
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:06,400
be a witness as well and lied about it

995
00:36:08,710 --> 00:36:07,760
at the time

996
00:36:10,790 --> 00:36:08,720
um

997
00:36:12,950 --> 00:36:10,800
what happened well and for for the

998
00:36:15,589 --> 00:36:12,960
audience really quick

999
00:36:17,030 --> 00:36:15,599
what happened in rua so

1000
00:36:18,950 --> 00:36:17,040
so there were roughly there were

1001
00:36:20,550 --> 00:36:18,960
actually a hundred children people if

1002
00:36:23,030 --> 00:36:20,560
you look it up on wikipedia it says like

1003
00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:23,040
64 or 66 that's how many children

1004
00:36:27,109 --> 00:36:24,800
actually went in front of the camera and

1005
00:36:28,069 --> 00:36:27,119
were interviewed but but in terms of how

1006
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:28,079
many children were actually in the

1007
00:36:32,069 --> 00:36:30,000
playground and i asked i was there i

1008
00:36:34,470 --> 00:36:32,079
asked there were over a hundred

1009
00:36:37,430 --> 00:36:34,480
so it was 10 30 in the morning

1010
00:36:39,589 --> 00:36:37,440
uh morning recess there were roughly 100

1011
00:36:40,470 --> 00:36:39,599
children playing

1012
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:40,480
and

1013
00:36:45,670 --> 00:36:42,960
they were explaining this to me that the

1014
00:36:48,230 --> 00:36:45,680
uh and it was rural rue is outside of

1015
00:36:50,310 --> 00:36:48,240
harare which is the capital of zimbabwe

1016
00:36:51,829 --> 00:36:50,320
there's a these logs that they would put

1017
00:36:54,230 --> 00:36:51,839
that would define the outermost

1018
00:36:56,790 --> 00:36:54,240
perimeter of the playground and beyond

1019
00:36:59,270 --> 00:36:56,800
that was like sort of tall grass and

1020
00:37:01,190 --> 00:36:59,280
potentially snakes and spiders and nasty

1021
00:37:03,510 --> 00:37:01,200
things that the children knew not to go

1022
00:37:05,109 --> 00:37:03,520
it was it was un

1023
00:37:07,670 --> 00:37:05,119
groomed you know so they were only

1024
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:07,680
allowed to go as far as the logs

1025
00:37:10,310 --> 00:37:08,880
and that was it so the children of

1026
00:37:11,829 --> 00:37:10,320
course being children would go all the

1027
00:37:13,030 --> 00:37:11,839
way out to the furthest point possible

1028
00:37:14,470 --> 00:37:13,040
and they would dance and skip along

1029
00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:14,480
these logs

1030
00:37:16,790 --> 00:37:15,760
and they

1031
00:37:20,870 --> 00:37:16,800
saw

1032
00:37:23,589 --> 00:37:20,880
a ufo in fact multiple ufos disc shaped

1033
00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:23,599
objects uh that they were all kind of

1034
00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:25,680
looking at flying very slowly

1035
00:37:30,470 --> 00:37:27,760
and uh and then these these things like

1036
00:37:33,030 --> 00:37:30,480
these these uh ufos landed and some of

1037
00:37:34,950 --> 00:37:33,040
the students say like two or three or

1038
00:37:36,310 --> 00:37:34,960
four or you know the numbers vary a

1039
00:37:38,150 --> 00:37:36,320
little bit they all say yeah these

1040
00:37:39,270 --> 00:37:38,160
things landed and then the next thing

1041
00:37:41,990 --> 00:37:39,280
they knew

1042
00:37:45,510 --> 00:37:42,000
uh there were these little

1043
00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:46,710
right there at the edge of the

1044
00:37:52,550 --> 00:37:50,400
playground right there with them and and

1045
00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:52,560
they the way they described it to me is

1046
00:37:55,829 --> 00:37:53,920
if you've ever been out in the wild and

1047
00:37:59,349 --> 00:37:55,839
you come across a really rare

1048
00:38:01,510 --> 00:37:59,359
wild animal and there's a moment of

1049
00:38:04,310 --> 00:38:01,520
curiosity of intrigue

1050
00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:04,320
of mystery and there's a standoff where

1051
00:38:07,589 --> 00:38:05,760
you're looking at one another with

1052
00:38:09,109 --> 00:38:07,599
curiosity and there's that

1053
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:09,119
that sort of time

1054
00:38:14,310 --> 00:38:11,680
freezes for a moment it's not

1055
00:38:16,390 --> 00:38:14,320
um aggressive or or

1056
00:38:17,190 --> 00:38:16,400
or negative in any way it's just curious

1057
00:38:19,829 --> 00:38:17,200
like

1058
00:38:21,990 --> 00:38:19,839
looking at them with the same level of

1059
00:38:23,510 --> 00:38:22,000
curiosity and that's what it was like

1060
00:38:25,270 --> 00:38:23,520
and some of the students had told me and

1061
00:38:27,190 --> 00:38:25,280
this didn't make it the movie

1062
00:38:28,870 --> 00:38:27,200
the children were dancing on these logs

1063
00:38:30,069 --> 00:38:28,880
at the farthest perimeter of the of the

1064
00:38:33,589 --> 00:38:30,079
playground

1065
00:38:36,069 --> 00:38:33,599
and the uh creatures were dancing along

1066
00:38:38,870 --> 00:38:36,079
with the children on the

1067
00:38:41,349 --> 00:38:38,880
in the grass just just next to them

1068
00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:41,359
joyfully playfully dancing

1069
00:38:44,870 --> 00:38:42,960
and uh

1070
00:38:47,430 --> 00:38:44,880
this this uh then there was some face to

1071
00:38:49,030 --> 00:38:47,440
face contact some of them were still

1072
00:38:51,270 --> 00:38:49,040
with the crack others were coming but

1073
00:38:53,030 --> 00:38:51,280
they would sort of appear and reappear

1074
00:38:54,550 --> 00:38:53,040
almost like they were shape-shifting

1075
00:38:55,829 --> 00:38:54,560
kind of thing you know what i mean like

1076
00:38:57,430 --> 00:38:55,839
i was trying to describe they were

1077
00:38:58,950 --> 00:38:57,440
trying to describe what it was like to

1078
00:39:00,230 --> 00:38:58,960
me it seemed like they were kind of

1079
00:39:02,390 --> 00:39:00,240
slipping and out of this dimension

1080
00:39:03,910 --> 00:39:02,400
almost is what it sounded like but they

1081
00:39:05,670 --> 00:39:03,920
would sort of appear and then reappear

1082
00:39:07,190 --> 00:39:05,680
over here and kind of move around and

1083
00:39:08,790 --> 00:39:07,200
they almost floated

1084
00:39:10,470 --> 00:39:08,800
and then there was face-to-face contact

1085
00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:10,480
and i kept saying well how far you know

1086
00:39:13,670 --> 00:39:11,680
i was thinking like maybe they're in the

1087
00:39:15,990 --> 00:39:13,680
bushes like you know no this was like

1088
00:39:17,270 --> 00:39:16,000
three feet away

1089
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:17,280
right there

1090
00:39:21,589 --> 00:39:18,960
and um

1091
00:39:22,630 --> 00:39:21,599
and they had uh telepathic messages that

1092
00:39:24,230 --> 00:39:22,640
were

1093
00:39:25,910 --> 00:39:24,240
given to the children

1094
00:39:27,430 --> 00:39:25,920
um of

1095
00:39:30,310 --> 00:39:27,440
not about being better environmental

1096
00:39:32,870 --> 00:39:30,320
stewards and um that sort of thing

1097
00:39:35,990 --> 00:39:32,880
and they actually described it that way

1098
00:39:37,750 --> 00:39:36,000
that they actually communicated and they

1099
00:39:40,069 --> 00:39:37,760
probably didn't even know what telepathy

1100
00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:40,079
was yeah or this you know

1101
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:42,560
but that is you know that's what they

1102
00:39:47,910 --> 00:39:46,160
described uh to everyone that they had

1103
00:39:53,109 --> 00:39:47,920
communication

1104
00:39:54,550 --> 00:39:53,119
it's incredible and and uh dr john mack

1105
00:39:56,069 --> 00:39:54,560
harvard psychiatrist

1106
00:39:57,910 --> 00:39:56,079
other interviews as well but he sat the

1107
00:39:59,430 --> 00:39:57,920
children down and then and then you know

1108
00:40:01,430 --> 00:39:59,440
you listen to the children then right

1109
00:40:03,589 --> 00:40:01,440
after it happened the archive footage

1110
00:40:05,190 --> 00:40:03,599
that we have and then you then you sit

1111
00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:05,200
down with them today 20 years later and

1112
00:40:09,030 --> 00:40:07,680
you just won't believe it man it's just

1113
00:40:10,870 --> 00:40:09,040
it's like it happened yesterday when

1114
00:40:12,630 --> 00:40:10,880
they remember and and a lot of them

1115
00:40:14,790 --> 00:40:12,640
hadn't even told their spouses or their

1116
00:40:16,310 --> 00:40:14,800
husbands about it just because they were

1117
00:40:17,990 --> 00:40:16,320
like i just i'm tired of defending this

1118
00:40:19,990 --> 00:40:18,000
story i don't want to i don't i just

1119
00:40:21,270 --> 00:40:20,000
don't want to engage i don't care if you

1120
00:40:22,630 --> 00:40:21,280
don't you know i don't know i'm not

1121
00:40:24,470 --> 00:40:22,640
interested in trying to persuade anybody

1122
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:24,480
whether it happened or not and right

1123
00:40:28,069 --> 00:40:26,400
down to the who's now the headmistress

1124
00:40:29,109 --> 00:40:28,079
judy bates says the same thing you know

1125
00:40:31,670 --> 00:40:29,119
it's like

1126
00:40:34,710 --> 00:40:31,680
this this happened this event happened

1127
00:40:37,030 --> 00:40:34,720
what about the uh the archive footage

1128
00:40:38,710 --> 00:40:37,040
that was shot before you got there that

1129
00:40:41,430 --> 00:40:38,720
whole documentary did you get a chance

1130
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:41,440
to see any of that

1131
00:40:46,790 --> 00:40:44,160
yeah well i we licensed it from the don

1132
00:40:49,589 --> 00:40:46,800
mack institute okay because there were

1133
00:40:51,510 --> 00:40:49,599
wheels and reels of footage

1134
00:40:52,710 --> 00:40:51,520
oh yeah yeah yeah i mean it's funny

1135
00:40:54,710 --> 00:40:52,720
actually i got

1136
00:40:56,870 --> 00:40:54,720
i bumped into a gentleman on the street

1137
00:40:59,430 --> 00:40:56,880
uh coincidence who knows but literally

1138
00:41:01,270 --> 00:40:59,440
on the sidewalk in colorado and he's

1139
00:41:03,349 --> 00:41:01,280
going oh wait a minute eugene you know

1140
00:41:05,430 --> 00:41:03,359
yeah we start talking

1141
00:41:08,150 --> 00:41:05,440
long story short back in the 90s he was

1142
00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:08,160
working with with dr john mack and they

1143
00:41:11,670 --> 00:41:10,079
were going to produce a special

1144
00:41:13,589 --> 00:41:11,680
it was going to be called i think it was

1145
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:13,599
going to be called uh disturbance which

1146
00:41:17,670 --> 00:41:15,680
is what

1147
00:41:19,990 --> 00:41:17,680
rua means disturbance

1148
00:41:21,190 --> 00:41:20,000
and ruins where the incident took place

1149
00:41:22,870 --> 00:41:21,200
and uh

1150
00:41:25,510 --> 00:41:22,880
the the thing kind of fell apart but he

1151
00:41:28,630 --> 00:41:25,520
had all these and then of course uh dr

1152
00:41:30,390 --> 00:41:28,640
john mack unfortunately died in london

1153
00:41:32,309 --> 00:41:30,400
and uh nothing really happened but he'd

1154
00:41:34,470 --> 00:41:32,319
been sitting all these original tapes

1155
00:41:35,349 --> 00:41:34,480
that he had from back then and he gave

1156
00:41:37,670 --> 00:41:35,359
them to me and i had them all

1157
00:41:39,670 --> 00:41:37,680
transferred and there was a lot of

1158
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:39,680
interviews that were done with locals in

1159
00:41:43,990 --> 00:41:42,079
the they're in and around harare and rua

1160
00:41:45,750 --> 00:41:44,000
that had seen the craft too so lots of

1161
00:41:47,829 --> 00:41:45,760
adults had seen this is an incident took

1162
00:41:49,589 --> 00:41:47,839
place over several days and then the

1163
00:41:52,150 --> 00:41:49,599
objects eventually decided to land at

1164
00:41:53,670 --> 00:41:52,160
the school whatever reason that was uh

1165
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:53,680
maybe they felt the children were much

1166
00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:55,200
more likely to make you know benign

1167
00:41:59,670 --> 00:41:57,760
contact but but but the objects were

1168
00:42:00,790 --> 00:41:59,680
witnessed by lots of people in the town

1169
00:42:02,950 --> 00:42:00,800
and there was actually i don't know like

1170
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:02,960
seven or eight seconds of a cigar shaped

1171
00:42:06,710 --> 00:42:04,720
thing at night that was taking video

1172
00:42:10,150 --> 00:42:06,720
that we also have

1173
00:42:11,990 --> 00:42:10,160
very exciting and i want to uh

1174
00:42:17,030 --> 00:42:12,000
i want to talk about i gotta see it i

1175
00:42:19,990 --> 00:42:17,040
gotta i i can't i i can't wait uh you

1176
00:42:22,150 --> 00:42:20,000
know i i i know a guy that knows a guy

1177
00:42:25,829 --> 00:42:22,160
and you know hopefully i'll be able to

1178
00:42:28,150 --> 00:42:25,839
see a rough cut here uh very soon and uh

1179
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:28,160
but um i'll see what you know see what

1180
00:42:31,510 --> 00:42:30,640
you can do i want to talk

1181
00:42:34,230 --> 00:42:31,520
james

1182
00:42:35,589 --> 00:42:34,240
but this other case uh that there's a

1183
00:42:37,430 --> 00:42:35,599
lot in the film we're not giving

1184
00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:37,440
everything away tonight and i i

1185
00:42:44,150 --> 00:42:40,480
certainly want to uh uh be surprised too

1186
00:42:48,470 --> 00:42:44,160
as well but uh china the mong jiao gua

1187
00:42:50,790 --> 00:42:48,480
case which was also surprisingly in 1994

1188
00:42:54,230 --> 00:42:50,800
this is another case that most have

1189
00:42:56,390 --> 00:42:54,240
never heard of uh tell us about that and

1190
00:42:59,829 --> 00:42:56,400
and well yeah actually i'd never you

1191
00:43:00,950 --> 00:42:59,839
know um uh last year i went to china

1192
00:43:03,109 --> 00:43:00,960
twice

1193
00:43:05,670 --> 00:43:03,119
and uh was a big deal and and don

1194
00:43:07,270 --> 00:43:05,680
schmidt was was was really helpful in

1195
00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:07,280
making that all happen

1196
00:43:11,510 --> 00:43:09,839
um he had this whole contingent of

1197
00:43:12,790 --> 00:43:11,520
chinese researchers

1198
00:43:15,349 --> 00:43:12,800
um

1199
00:43:17,829 --> 00:43:15,359
that that that invited us over and we

1200
00:43:21,109 --> 00:43:17,839
did a whole sweeping tour of china we

1201
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:21,119
went to lulian and dalian and chongqing

1202
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:22,560
where they were starting a

1203
00:43:25,510 --> 00:43:24,480
museum for the roswell case they're

1204
00:43:26,950 --> 00:43:25,520
working with

1205
00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:26,960
with uh

1206
00:43:29,990 --> 00:43:28,560
don schmidt on that

1207
00:43:32,790 --> 00:43:30,000
beijing

1208
00:43:35,270 --> 00:43:32,800
and uh we went just like i said planes

1209
00:43:36,870 --> 00:43:35,280
trains and automobiles all across china

1210
00:43:38,309 --> 00:43:36,880
and it's amazing like there's

1211
00:43:40,870 --> 00:43:38,319
more

1212
00:43:42,630 --> 00:43:40,880
chinese ufo researchers that there are

1213
00:43:44,390 --> 00:43:42,640
you know population in the united states

1214
00:43:46,950 --> 00:43:44,400
i'm exaggerating a little bit but no

1215
00:43:49,829 --> 00:43:46,960
you're not no you no you're not no you

1216
00:43:51,750 --> 00:43:49,839
are not it's it's amazing

1217
00:43:55,030 --> 00:43:51,760
how many like the level of

1218
00:43:56,309 --> 00:43:55,040
professionalism and and seriousness and

1219
00:43:58,870 --> 00:43:56,319
we had

1220
00:44:01,829 --> 00:43:58,880
you know generals in uniform going

1221
00:44:04,390 --> 00:44:01,839
around with us traveling with us and i

1222
00:44:06,230 --> 00:44:04,400
had a drone and you can't fly a drone in

1223
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:06,240
china like you you know you've got to

1224
00:44:11,510 --> 00:44:09,040
have a pro you go to jail man well this

1225
00:44:13,349 --> 00:44:11,520
general was saying i got funny funny

1226
00:44:15,510 --> 00:44:13,359
photographs of us drinking together at

1227
00:44:18,150 --> 00:44:15,520
night but he would just tell people you

1228
00:44:19,990 --> 00:44:18,160
know james fly your drone like so i got

1229
00:44:21,750 --> 00:44:20,000
all this incredible drone footage all

1230
00:44:24,150 --> 00:44:21,760
across china with this guy

1231
00:44:25,670 --> 00:44:24,160
they had we got to dalian

1232
00:44:27,190 --> 00:44:25,680
which is the second largest seaport in

1233
00:44:30,150 --> 00:44:27,200
china and they had this

1234
00:44:32,550 --> 00:44:30,160
monument overlooking the city

1235
00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:32,560
big city too and it was the most

1236
00:44:36,710 --> 00:44:34,800
beautiful sculpture like that you could

1237
00:44:38,150 --> 00:44:36,720
climb up into it was massive i don't

1238
00:44:40,150 --> 00:44:38,160
know if it was a restaurant inside but

1239
00:44:41,030 --> 00:44:40,160
if it wasn't it could have been it was

1240
00:44:42,870 --> 00:44:41,040
huge

1241
00:44:44,950 --> 00:44:42,880
beautiful spiraling staircase that goes

1242
00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:44,960
up in the belly of a flying saucer i

1243
00:44:48,550 --> 00:44:46,720
mean this flying saucer if you saw it

1244
00:44:49,910 --> 00:44:48,560
from not too far away it looked without

1245
00:44:51,430 --> 00:44:49,920
seeing the staircase going up to at the

1246
00:44:53,990 --> 00:44:51,440
bottom i mean it looks like an

1247
00:44:55,910 --> 00:44:54,000
absolutely real flying saucer a

1248
00:44:57,430 --> 00:44:55,920
multi-million dollar sculpture and

1249
00:45:00,710 --> 00:44:57,440
beautiful things

1250
00:45:01,829 --> 00:45:00,720
that i was thinking my god like you know

1251
00:45:03,190 --> 00:45:01,839
a lot of people take stuff very

1252
00:45:05,990 --> 00:45:03,200
seriously but there was a landing case

1253
00:45:07,990 --> 00:45:06,000
that took place in 1994.

1254
00:45:09,349 --> 00:45:08,000
um i think it's a black forest province

1255
00:45:12,870 --> 00:45:09,359
i didn't look that one up but it's mong

1256
00:45:14,230 --> 00:45:12,880
jiao gua and it was a contact case

1257
00:45:15,910 --> 00:45:14,240
of an object that looked kind of like a

1258
00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:15,920
tadpole we actually have an illustration

1259
00:45:19,270 --> 00:45:17,520
something that was done i think in the

1260
00:45:20,870 --> 00:45:19,280
50s that we have in the film that's very

1261
00:45:23,030 --> 00:45:20,880
similar to what this thing was described

1262
00:45:24,069 --> 00:45:23,040
in china there was contact made and this

1263
00:45:25,109 --> 00:45:24,079
gentleman

1264
00:45:26,870 --> 00:45:25,119
uh

1265
00:45:29,430 --> 00:45:26,880
received telepathic messages about

1266
00:45:32,309 --> 00:45:29,440
similar about environmental impact about

1267
00:45:34,550 --> 00:45:32,319
our environment at chilling similarities

1268
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:34,560
as what happened with the children in in

1269
00:45:39,190 --> 00:45:36,960
rua right

1270
00:45:40,790 --> 00:45:39,200
incredible it was really incredible it

1271
00:45:42,710 --> 00:45:40,800
was really incredible and i met with

1272
00:45:44,870 --> 00:45:42,720
lots of other witnesses lots of other

1273
00:45:47,190 --> 00:45:44,880
witnesses throughout different regions

1274
00:45:48,950 --> 00:45:47,200
in china that had pretty phenomenal

1275
00:45:50,630 --> 00:45:48,960
cases and telepathic

1276
00:45:51,829 --> 00:45:50,640
communication with these these things

1277
00:45:53,910 --> 00:45:51,839
and sometimes it might not have been

1278
00:45:55,829 --> 00:45:53,920
face-to-face contact with with beans but

1279
00:45:57,990 --> 00:45:55,839
they'd see a craft and have a message

1280
00:46:00,710 --> 00:45:58,000
did you uh did you get a chance to meet

1281
00:46:05,430 --> 00:46:00,720
chuck fay

1282
00:46:09,190 --> 00:46:05,440
he's a he's a radio host over there

1283
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:09,200
uh his radio show is called mj13

1284
00:46:12,790 --> 00:46:11,040
no way oh you don't

1285
00:46:14,390 --> 00:46:12,800
you didn't meet chuck chuck's the art

1286
00:46:16,230 --> 00:46:14,400
bell of china

1287
00:46:19,190 --> 00:46:16,240
and when i and i'm not saying i'm not

1288
00:46:22,950 --> 00:46:19,200
saying that in a funny ha ha way

1289
00:46:24,230 --> 00:46:22,960
he is the bleeping art bell of china

1290
00:46:27,670 --> 00:46:24,240
and uh

1291
00:46:29,270 --> 00:46:27,680
an amazing amazing individual and it

1292
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:29,280
knows so much

1293
00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:31,680
about uh and he comes over to the united

1294
00:46:34,230 --> 00:46:33,440
states and he does this thing over here

1295
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:34,240
and he

1296
00:46:38,230 --> 00:46:36,000
uh you know he goes to the conferences

1297
00:46:39,270 --> 00:46:38,240
he's got his team and his documentary

1298
00:46:42,069 --> 00:46:39,280
crew and

1299
00:46:44,069 --> 00:46:42,079
uh he's got an incredible infrastructure

1300
00:46:46,630 --> 00:46:44,079
he's you know he's just got a great tv

1301
00:46:47,910 --> 00:46:46,640
show and and radio program and he's out

1302
00:46:49,030 --> 00:46:47,920
of hong kong

1303
00:46:51,270 --> 00:46:49,040
but uh

1304
00:46:53,349 --> 00:46:51,280
but oh i met some other researchers from

1305
00:46:55,349 --> 00:46:53,359
hong kong i didn't go to hong kong but i

1306
00:46:58,390 --> 00:46:55,359
met some people that were from hong kong

1307
00:47:00,950 --> 00:47:00,069
i didn't have time we spent three weeks

1308
00:47:02,710 --> 00:47:00,960
over there

1309
00:47:04,790 --> 00:47:02,720
and we went back again

1310
00:47:07,270 --> 00:47:04,800
to chongqing what a big city that is and

1311
00:47:09,910 --> 00:47:07,280
they had an opening of a replica of the

1312
00:47:11,670 --> 00:47:09,920
roswell museum in new mexico in

1313
00:47:14,790 --> 00:47:11,680
chongqing china

1314
00:47:17,990 --> 00:47:14,800
why why do you think china is

1315
00:47:20,550 --> 00:47:18,000
so open uh to the subject

1316
00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:20,560
uh it's it's pretty fascinating i mean i

1317
00:47:25,589 --> 00:47:22,319
think that the government you know they

1318
00:47:28,470 --> 00:47:25,599
control everything over there but

1319
00:47:30,550 --> 00:47:28,480
they are okay gene gene

1320
00:47:33,349 --> 00:47:30,560
was the guy that that we dealt with the

1321
00:47:35,589 --> 00:47:33,359
head of the international ufo research

1322
00:47:38,309 --> 00:47:35,599
and he was telling me that in order to

1323
00:47:39,910 --> 00:47:38,319
have an organization like he has you

1324
00:47:42,470 --> 00:47:39,920
have to have a stamp of approval

1325
00:47:44,550 --> 00:47:42,480
certification from the government right

1326
00:47:48,150 --> 00:47:44,560
and so that's sort of a tacit

1327
00:47:49,589 --> 00:47:48,160
acceptance of a validation of of your

1328
00:47:51,829 --> 00:47:49,599
you know your business or your

1329
00:47:53,910 --> 00:47:51,839
organization so

1330
00:47:55,349 --> 00:47:53,920
they didn't say yeah i guess the way he

1331
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:55,359
was explaining it to me was that yeah

1332
00:47:58,870 --> 00:47:57,200
they allow him to do what he's doing

1333
00:48:00,870 --> 00:47:58,880
because they believe in what he's doing

1334
00:48:03,750 --> 00:48:00,880
and believe it's necessary and the fact

1335
00:48:05,910 --> 00:48:03,760
that we had an active general in uniform

1336
00:48:07,910 --> 00:48:05,920
going around with us was was amazing i

1337
00:48:10,470 --> 00:48:07,920
mean that's it would you ever see that

1338
00:48:13,109 --> 00:48:10,480
in the states nope an active general not

1339
00:48:15,510 --> 00:48:13,119
retired active in uniform i can't

1340
00:48:17,270 --> 00:48:15,520
imagine that going down in china

1341
00:48:18,550 --> 00:48:17,280
forget about the united states i

1342
00:48:21,109 --> 00:48:18,560
couldn't believe it either man it was it

1343
00:48:22,870 --> 00:48:21,119
was remarkable in fact

1344
00:48:24,150 --> 00:48:22,880
you know

1345
00:48:25,990 --> 00:48:24,160
there's so much stuff that's going to

1346
00:48:27,349 --> 00:48:26,000
end up at the edit room floor we are two

1347
00:48:29,510 --> 00:48:27,359
and a half hours long right now we need

1348
00:48:30,790 --> 00:48:29,520
to cut 30 minutes out of this movie

1349
00:48:32,710 --> 00:48:30,800
we're not going to catch china's section

1350
00:48:33,910 --> 00:48:32,720
out but i think one of the problem what

1351
00:48:35,510 --> 00:48:33,920
we're probably going to do we've talked

1352
00:48:37,829 --> 00:48:35,520
about this for some time now is do an

1353
00:48:39,589 --> 00:48:37,839
eight-part mini-series for netflix after

1354
00:48:41,109 --> 00:48:39,599
this because there's so much stuff in

1355
00:48:43,190 --> 00:48:41,119
the interim floor that we can't get it

1356
00:48:45,030 --> 00:48:43,200
all in which you could do cut peter

1357
00:48:48,790 --> 00:48:45,040
coyote out

1358
00:48:51,109 --> 00:48:48,800
and then and then i could replace

1359
00:48:53,190 --> 00:48:51,119
hey uh james i know that you're in the

1360
00:48:54,790 --> 00:48:53,200
middle of editing i understand that and

1361
00:48:57,829 --> 00:48:54,800
you're working can i keep you for one

1362
00:49:03,670 --> 00:49:00,230
one more segment james

1363
00:49:05,589 --> 00:49:03,680
yes you're the best yes i knew you i i

1364
00:49:08,870 --> 00:49:05,599
just knew it yeah let's uh let's take a

1365
00:49:12,950 --> 00:49:10,870
you know what blame me that's that's it

1366
00:49:15,589 --> 00:49:12,960
you know i'll be the fall guy our guest

1367
00:49:17,990 --> 00:49:15,599
tonight is james fox talking about his

1368
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:18,000
new film the phenomenon we'll be right

1369
00:49:27,670 --> 00:49:24,549
you have just listened to a full hour

1370
00:49:29,190 --> 00:49:27,680
free preview of fade to black to get the

1371
00:49:30,390 --> 00:49:29,200
full show

1372
00:49:33,790 --> 00:49:30,400
all archives

1373
00:49:36,150 --> 00:49:33,800
just go to our podcast section at

1374
00:49:38,710 --> 00:49:36,160
jimmychurchradio.com you can also sign

1375
00:49:42,950 --> 00:49:38,720
up to be a fader not in our membership

1376
00:49:45,910 --> 00:49:42,960
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1377
00:49:50,130 --> 00:49:45,920
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